Italian verbs with double pronouns

Hi, everybody! I'm Luca and this video is about Italian verbs. More specifically, this video is about a topic related to Italian grammar that isn't usually talked about in Italian courses.

This video is for those wonderful people who are learning Italian as a foreign language. In other words, this is an Italian lesson for non-native speakers of Italian.

In particular, this video is designed for those people who understand Italian, but would like to improve their level. If you want to speak good Italian, you are in the right place!

In this video I wanted to talk about Italian verbs and, more specifically, I wanted to explain the difference between the sentences "Mi è successo" and "Mi si è successo".

Some time ago somebody asked me in the comments section to explain the difference between the sentence "Mi è successo" and the sentence "Mi si è successo". And this video was created to respond to this request.

Ok, then. My answer to this question is kind of short.

The thing is that in Italian we say "Mi è successo" and the sentence "Mi si è successo" just doesn't exist.

However, this question is very, very interesting because it's related to the wider topic of double pronouns. It's related, for instance, to the cluster of personal pronouns "MI SI".

Therefore, in the first part of this video I will answer the specific question I've been asked, while in the second part of this video I will take this chance to talk about the pronoun cluster "mi si".

So, as I said, in Italian we say "Mi è successo" and we don't say "Mi si è successo".

Why? Because "succedere" (meaning happening, occurring, taking place), is not a reflexive verb, is not a pronominal verb. The infinitive mood of this verb is in fact "succedere" and not "succedersi".

So my advice to the person who asked me this question is as follows. I suggest them to pay special attention to the infinitive mood of each verb. If the verb is not ending with "si", then it is not a reflexive verb, therefore the pronoun cluster "mi si" cannot possibly exist.

The pronoun cluster "mi si" is only possible with reflexive verbs. Therefore, given that "succedere" is not a reflexive verb, we cannot say "mi si è successo".

But let's do some examples with reflexive verbs, that is verbs with the infinitive mood ending with pronoun particle "si", where we can indeed find the pronoun cluster "mi si", that is pronoun MI together with pronoun SI.

An example could be the sentence: "Mi si è bloccato il computer". In this case, we can say "Mi si è bloccato il computer" because this verb's infinitive mood is "bloccarsi". Therefore: "il computer si è bloccato".

Another example could be: "Mi si è spento il telefono". Again, the infinitive mood is "spegnersi" - not "spegnere". Therefore: "il telefono si è spento".

Another example could be the sentence "Mi si è rotto l'ombrello". Again, the verb is "rompersi", therefore: "l'ombrello si è rotto".

Yet another example could be the sentence: "Mi si è gonfiato il labbro". Again: "il labbro si è gonfiato". The verb is "gonfiarsi" - not "gonfiare".

The strange thing about these sentences is not the pronoun SI, because the pronoun SI here is perfectly normal, it's not surprising at all. Because here we have reflexive verbs with the infinitive mood ending with SI, therefore

the verb "rompersi" gives us "si è rotto",

the verb "spegnersi" gives us "si è spento",

the verb "gonfiarsi" gives us "si è gonfiato",

and the verb "bloccarsi" gives us "si è bloccato".

What's strange about these sentences is not the pronoun "si", but rather "mi" before "si".

How do I interpret these sentences as a native speaker (of Italian)?

Well, for me the first sentence, "Mi si è spento il telefono", basically means: *My phone turned (itself) off (in Italian: "Si è spento il mio telefono").

Similarly, the sentence "Mi si è bloccato il computer" for me means something like: *My computer crashed (itself). (In Italian: "Si è bloccato il mio computer").

Therefore the pronoun "mi" highlights that the computer we are talking about is mine. In other words, this happened to me. Because, if I just said "Si è bloccato il computer", then this sentence wouldn't be entirely clear. It wouldn't be clear whose computer. Or, in any case, to whom happened this accident.

Similarly, the sentence "Mi si è gonfiato il labbro" for me means something like: *My lip got (itself) swollen. (In italian: "Si è gonfiato il mio labbro").

I want to stress this. In Italian, in these cases we use pronouns, we don't use possessive adjectives. Because a sentence such as "Si è bloccato il mio computer" sounds a bit weird and unnatural. Everybody says: "Mi si è bloccato il computer".

I suggest you don't say something like

"Si è bloccato il mio computer", or

"Si è gonfiato il mio labbro", or

"Si è spento il mio telefono".

Because in these cases native speakers use pronouns.

Ok, so. To make it clear, I only gave you some examples with the pronoun "mi". Needless to say, if something happens to other people, then we can use other pronouns as well.

For instance, if this happens to you, then I can say

"Ti si è spento il telefono", or

"Ti si è bloccato il computer", or

"Ti si è gonfiato il labbro", or

"Ti si è rotto l'ombrello".

How should we interpret these sentences?

Si è spento il tuo telefono.

Si è rotto il tuo ombrello.

Si è bloccato il tuo computer.

Si è gonfiato il tuo labbro.

If this happens to him, then we can say "Gli si è spento il telefono".

If this happens to her, then we can say: "Le si è spento il telefono".

If this accident occurs to us, however, we can't use these forms. We cannot say things such as

"Ci si è spento il telefono",

"Ci si è bloccato il computer",

"Ci si è rotto l'ombrello".

These forms do not exist.

If this accident happens to you (plural), we can say:

"Vi si è spento il telefono",

"Vi si è rotto l'ombrello",

"Vi si è bloccato il computer".

And, to conclude, if this happens to them, we can say:

"Gli si è spento il telefono",

"Gli si è bloccato il computer",

"Gli si è rotto l'ombrello".

Obviosuly, the last sentence "Gli si è rotto l'ombrello" referred to more than one person sounds a bit weird.

So, basically, the point I'm tring to make is this: in this type of sentences, instead of using possessive adjectives, in Italian we use personal pronouns.

Anyway, I have noticed that, generally speaking, pronoun clusters are particularly difficult for those who are learning Italian as a foreign language.

Some time ago I made a video about a similar pronoun cluster. That is, the cluster CI SI. This pronoun cluster is a bit convoluted and difficult to understand for non-native speakers of Italian.

Therefore, if you want to better understand the pronoun cluster "ci si" followed by a verb, here you can find a card to this video. If you want to speak good Italian, please do take a look at this video.

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